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	<title>Comments on: East of Eden</title>
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		<title>By: Randy Fromm</title>
		<link>http://glx.com/books/east-of-eden/east-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Fromm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glx.com/?p=79#comment-206</guid>
		<description>I followed the link for the CBP.  It appears the section of Genesis that is of interest here (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.conservapedia.com/Genesis_1-8_(Translated)#Chapter_4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chapter 4&lt;/a&gt;) has been &quot;translated.&quot;  They use a tabular format showing the KJV then the CBP version and then any amplifying notes.  I read over the CBP&#039;s agenda; it is no different in my mind than the agendas of past translators.  Every one of them (re)wrote the history of THEIR church in the manner that best suited them.  I do though cautiously laud their efforts to restore some sense of the &quot;original&quot; (&lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; ironic implications intended) language.  There is, though, no discussion of &lt;em&gt;timshel&lt;/em&gt;.

As for closure, I understand and to a certain extent agree with your points.  I believe a sense of closure is in many ways a function of the attachment a reader makes to the different facets of the reading process (the arc of the story, the individual characters, the didactic frame) and the effects those facets have on the reader.  

For example, the &lt;em&gt;timshel&lt;/em&gt; motif: As you said, it is brought round to closure by Adam&#039;s laboriously spoken final(?) word.  But that occurs only after being introduced through &quot;showing&quot; (in the Caleb/Charles/Adam relations), then being further developed and (b)elaborated by &quot;telling&quot; (in the exegesis of the Genesis story of Cain and Abel by the Lee/Samuel/Adam panel), and then finally being (re)illustrated for the reader by the Adam/Caleb/Aron relation.  In this instance, while there is closure, I cannot but feel that Steinbeck was pounding his point home with a rather large and sometimes ill-handled hammer.  As if the Adam/Eve/Cain/Abel motif were not obvious from the beginning, he had to (ab)use his characters to &quot;tell&quot; us that this was the thrust of his rendition of the story.  It was a forced closure, in my mind, with Steinbeck continuously and--unfortunately--quite obviously bending the arc of the story around to a satisfactory close.  Lois Maggenti would have immediately been on the phone to the schmalz police.

On the other hand, take the story of Lee--far and away, to me, the most interesting and well developed character in the story (though that may be a reflection of my own character): there is still in me a questioning, a desire to know more about what happened to Lee.  And I can walk away with that, feeling that the story goes on despite the book ending.  But as I said, above, this could be nothing more than a vestigial remnant of the attachment I formed for him.  I do have to admit that Lee was as (ab)used by Steinbeck as any of the other characters in making his point, if not more so.  Lee can be seen as the &lt;em&gt;deus ex machina&lt;/em&gt; device of the novel.  Without Lee and his (almost too obvious) intercession (at several crucial junctures), the story would founder under the weight of its own burden of repetition.


I enjoyed the story, and the reading.  I am just not certain I would label it a &quot;best read, ever.&quot;  It is entirely possible that Grant and Fred (the two unacquainted friends making the recommendation) have that sense of the book lingering from their first reads at an impressionable age.  I can see where a High School student, a young man in particular, could form that attachment by comparison to his own familial relations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I followed the link for the CBP.  It appears the section of Genesis that is of interest here (<a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Genesis_1-8_(Translated)#Chapter_4" rel="nofollow">Chapter 4</a>) has been &#8220;translated.&#8221;  They use a tabular format showing the KJV then the CBP version and then any amplifying notes.  I read over the CBP&#8217;s agenda; it is no different in my mind than the agendas of past translators.  Every one of them (re)wrote the history of THEIR church in the manner that best suited them.  I do though cautiously laud their efforts to restore some sense of the &#8220;original&#8221; (<em>all</em> ironic implications intended) language.  There is, though, no discussion of <em>timshel</em>.</p>
<p>As for closure, I understand and to a certain extent agree with your points.  I believe a sense of closure is in many ways a function of the attachment a reader makes to the different facets of the reading process (the arc of the story, the individual characters, the didactic frame) and the effects those facets have on the reader.  </p>
<p>For example, the <em>timshel</em> motif: As you said, it is brought round to closure by Adam&#8217;s laboriously spoken final(?) word.  But that occurs only after being introduced through &#8220;showing&#8221; (in the Caleb/Charles/Adam relations), then being further developed and (b)elaborated by &#8220;telling&#8221; (in the exegesis of the Genesis story of Cain and Abel by the Lee/Samuel/Adam panel), and then finally being (re)illustrated for the reader by the Adam/Caleb/Aron relation.  In this instance, while there is closure, I cannot but feel that Steinbeck was pounding his point home with a rather large and sometimes ill-handled hammer.  As if the Adam/Eve/Cain/Abel motif were not obvious from the beginning, he had to (ab)use his characters to &#8220;tell&#8221; us that this was the thrust of his rendition of the story.  It was a forced closure, in my mind, with Steinbeck continuously and&#8211;unfortunately&#8211;quite obviously bending the arc of the story around to a satisfactory close.  Lois Maggenti would have immediately been on the phone to the schmalz police.</p>
<p>On the other hand, take the story of Lee&#8211;far and away, to me, the most interesting and well developed character in the story (though that may be a reflection of my own character): there is still in me a questioning, a desire to know more about what happened to Lee.  And I can walk away with that, feeling that the story goes on despite the book ending.  But as I said, above, this could be nothing more than a vestigial remnant of the attachment I formed for him.  I do have to admit that Lee was as (ab)used by Steinbeck as any of the other characters in making his point, if not more so.  Lee can be seen as the <em>deus ex machina</em> device of the novel.  Without Lee and his (almost too obvious) intercession (at several crucial junctures), the story would founder under the weight of its own burden of repetition.</p>
<p>I enjoyed the story, and the reading.  I am just not certain I would label it a &#8220;best read, ever.&#8221;  It is entirely possible that Grant and Fred (the two unacquainted friends making the recommendation) have that sense of the book lingering from their first reads at an impressionable age.  I can see where a High School student, a young man in particular, could form that attachment by comparison to his own familial relations.</p>
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		<title>By: glenl</title>
		<link>http://glx.com/books/east-of-eden/east-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>glenl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glx.com/?p=79#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Regarding &quot;closure&quot;: yes, the narrative has closure. There is a concrete story arc about family, Hamiltons and Trasks, and particularly about fathers and favored sons. There is a theoretical presentation of &lt;em&gt;timshel&lt;/em&gt; (&quot;thou mayest&quot;, or free will) that drives the irony from one family plagued by jealousy without this knowledge (primarily Charles) to another that is plagued regardless of this knowledge. The final word by Adam, no matter how irritating it is to readers, connects the concrete to the abstract quite nicely. I appreciate Steinbeck&#039;s closing device that brings focus to &lt;em&gt;timshel&lt;/em&gt;, thus greatly increasing the role the Hamiltons played in the story.

How do you think conservapedia&#039;s &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Conservative Bible Project&lt;/a&gt;&quot; will translate Genesis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding &#8220;closure&#8221;: yes, the narrative has closure. There is a concrete story arc about family, Hamiltons and Trasks, and particularly about fathers and favored sons. There is a theoretical presentation of <em>timshel</em> (&#8220;thou mayest&#8221;, or free will) that drives the irony from one family plagued by jealousy without this knowledge (primarily Charles) to another that is plagued regardless of this knowledge. The final word by Adam, no matter how irritating it is to readers, connects the concrete to the abstract quite nicely. I appreciate Steinbeck&#8217;s closing device that brings focus to <em>timshel</em>, thus greatly increasing the role the Hamiltons played in the story.</p>
<p>How do you think conservapedia&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project" rel="nofollow">Conservative Bible Project</a>&#8221; will translate Genesis?</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Fromm</title>
		<link>http://glx.com/books/east-of-eden/east-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Fromm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 03:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glx.com/?p=79#comment-204</guid>
		<description>In answer to your question, George was his attorney friend back home; the one who appended the handwritten note to the letter about his brother&#039;s death.  As for why he would call Quinn &quot;George,&quot; I can only speculate that it was---as you suggest---to stress the effect of the stroke.  I found reading the sequence of events and the recovery quite &quot;realistic;&quot; though, that could be a consequence of the freight I carry.

As we have both finished the book, we might as well jump ahead to the question of &quot;endings&quot; as opposed to &quot;closure.&quot;  I think it is fair to say that the book comes to an end and that we would both agree to that.  A more important question is: does the narrative have closure?  does our narrator close things, neatly or otherwise?

And, riffing off of your lighter note:  Today, we went looking for an asian grocer to find Shao Xing (Chinese cooking wine).  We found a Korean-Japanese market that was well stocked and looked much better than the first one we went wandered through.  Laurie asked the woman at the counter: &quot;Do you have Shao Xing, Chinese cooking wine?&quot;  The response was vehemently, &quot;NO! We have no Chinese cooking; we only have Japanese.&quot;  Which was not true, as there were Indian, Thai, and Korean products in plain view.

Well, we finally found EXACTLY what we were looking for and Laurie proudly displayed it and said, &quot;We found it!  See, Chinese cooking wine!&quot;  At which point the woman said, &quot;Oh!  You meen Chinee koooking whine.&quot;  

Lee strikes yet again.  He and his pidgen English run both ways, apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In answer to your question, George was his attorney friend back home; the one who appended the handwritten note to the letter about his brother&#8217;s death.  As for why he would call Quinn &#8220;George,&#8221; I can only speculate that it was&#8212;as you suggest&#8212;to stress the effect of the stroke.  I found reading the sequence of events and the recovery quite &#8220;realistic;&#8221; though, that could be a consequence of the freight I carry.</p>
<p>As we have both finished the book, we might as well jump ahead to the question of &#8220;endings&#8221; as opposed to &#8220;closure.&#8221;  I think it is fair to say that the book comes to an end and that we would both agree to that.  A more important question is: does the narrative have closure?  does our narrator close things, neatly or otherwise?</p>
<p>And, riffing off of your lighter note:  Today, we went looking for an asian grocer to find Shao Xing (Chinese cooking wine).  We found a Korean-Japanese market that was well stocked and looked much better than the first one we went wandered through.  Laurie asked the woman at the counter: &#8220;Do you have Shao Xing, Chinese cooking wine?&#8221;  The response was vehemently, &#8220;NO! We have no Chinese cooking; we only have Japanese.&#8221;  Which was not true, as there were Indian, Thai, and Korean products in plain view.</p>
<p>Well, we finally found EXACTLY what we were looking for and Laurie proudly displayed it and said, &#8220;We found it!  See, Chinese cooking wine!&#8221;  At which point the woman said, &#8220;Oh!  You meen Chinee koooking whine.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Lee strikes yet again.  He and his pidgen English run both ways, apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: glenl</title>
		<link>http://glx.com/books/east-of-eden/east-of-eden/comment-page-1/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>glenl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glx.com/?p=79#comment-203</guid>
		<description>It is unfair to skip so far ahead but ... who is George? When Adam is visited by Sheriff Quinn and told that Cathy/Kate has committed suicide, Adam refers to him as &quot;George&quot;. Just an author&#039;s ploy to emphasize the shock?

Steinbeck has also tied us up in an alliteration with Cyrus begetting Charles and Charles (with Cathy) begetting Caleb. As with Adam and Aron, the names are conveniently alpha coded to keep the reader informed about who is a Cain and who is an Abel. Even Cathy and Abra fit this mold. When all the dust settles at the feet of these favored sons the timshel discussion will dominate.

On a lighter note: What if Adam&#039;s dying word was, &quot;Rosebud&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unfair to skip so far ahead but &#8230; who is George? When Adam is visited by Sheriff Quinn and told that Cathy/Kate has committed suicide, Adam refers to him as &#8220;George&#8221;. Just an author&#8217;s ploy to emphasize the shock?</p>
<p>Steinbeck has also tied us up in an alliteration with Cyrus begetting Charles and Charles (with Cathy) begetting Caleb. As with Adam and Aron, the names are conveniently alpha coded to keep the reader informed about who is a Cain and who is an Abel. Even Cathy and Abra fit this mold. When all the dust settles at the feet of these favored sons the timshel discussion will dominate.</p>
<p>On a lighter note: What if Adam&#8217;s dying word was, &#8220;Rosebud&#8221;?</p>
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